a matter of great importance and relevance

[shadydave]

my right-thinking pennsylvanian comrades will probably wonder why i'm even bothering with this post.

Water-ice: Tasty Frozen Concoction of the Gods
first of all, for those who doubt the authenticity of the word "water-ice":

"water-ice: 1. A confection of water and sugar, flavoured and frozen."
--the the OED
not only is "water-ice" a perfectly respectable word (no slang listings here), it was used in 1818 by the edinburgh review, giving it an international usage as well as a historical one.

second of all, "italian ice" isn't listed in the OED. neither is "shaved ice," "flavored ice", or "sno-cone." "snowcone" is listed, but only as a compound under "snow" that you must scroll through an enormous list of other derivatives to find. it doesn't even get its own proper OED definition, whereas "water-ice" is the primary definition for the word, the second being something scientific that is even more redundant. furthermore, the definition of "snowcone" is given, by some random magazine, as thus:

"1969 Daily Tel. 6 June 18 A *snowcone is a paper cup of flavoured shaved ice, highly popular among children""

as you can see, this definition is highly exclusive, and would not apply to any treat that was: 1. not served in a paper cup; 2. made of ice that was not shaved; or 3. was highly popular among anyone besides children.

finally, "water-ice" proves to have a more reasonable etymology than expected, as the OED lists for one definition of "ice" as "5. a. A frozen confection." in comparison to other frozen confections, such as ice-cream, it becomes clear that they are named based on their primary ingredient besides flavoring.

in conclusion, we have a concise, respectably agéd phrase recognized as legitimate by the OED that broadly defines a whole category of tasty treats. since there are no better-sounding feasible alternatives readily available, i see no reason why i can't use it with impunity.

and as for it sounding stupid, i offer you some similarly silly-sounding or inanely-named food-oriented words, plucked off the top of my head:
chickpea
pineapple
grapefruit
strawberry
squash
chicken-fried steak
chicken-fried chicken
black-eyed peas
coconut milk
au jus gravy
hot dog
hamburger
french fries
ketchup/catsup
milkshake
grits
ala mode
and much, much more!

oh, and the word "kansas"? totally sounds like 1. the gollum-ized plural of "can" or 2. a rather rude reference to the posterior of a cylindrical metal container/toilet/obsolete term for drinking vessel. i mean, honestly, it just looks silly. i don't care that it's named after a former local indian tribe, i just think it sounds funny.

in fact, i think the word is stupid.

:}P*

now i am hungry. must study for english exam.

Comments

[failing-light.livejournal.com]

oh, dave. you are my hero.

[monadhrionnag.livejournal.com]

ouch. a personal attack. did you really have to stoop so low? for that matter, though, most of the states' names sound stupid...pennsylvania sounds like a mispelled land of blood-sucking Bics. And it wasn't even named after a local Native American tribe but some random admiral who I doubt had much to do with it at all. but dave, did you really have to sink so low as to attack a language that is not your own?...at least i stick to making comments about a language i have the right to make fun of as i speak it.

[shadydave.livejournal.com]

pennsylvania sounds like a mispelled land of blood-sucking Bics

hehehe.

And it wasn't even named after a local Native American tribe but some random admiral who I doubt had much to do with it at all

actually, billy penn bought it and gave it to quakers. i guess if you buy a whole state/colony, you might as well name it after yourself.

i wasn't really personally attacking kansas, just demonstrating how silly it is to object to a word because you think it sounds funny.

annoying, isn't it?

[hersilentscream.livejournal.com]

Hells yes.

[monadhrionnag.livejournal.com]

I have no qualms with there being other silly words besides "water-ice," nor do i have any doubt of its legitimacy as a word. However, I still stick to my original argument that it is a very silly word and no matter what you say it is redundant (if you stick by your argument that "water-ice" is used in order to differentiate it from "ice cream"). Ice cream was originally called "iced cream" which was a descriptive, if uncreative, term. If you use the same logic for "water-ice" it means "iced water" which IS redundant. Plus, the Cambridge Dictionary defines "water-ice" as "UK old-fashioned for sorbet." It just depends which dictionary you use... However, let's call a truce; you can be proud of your East-Coast term, and I can still believe it is silly and redundant while acknowledging its legitimacy as a somewhat-archaic word.

mwahahaha ::is nit-picky::

[shadydave.livejournal.com]

Ice cream was originally called "iced cream" which was a descriptive, if uncreative, term. If you use the same logic for "water-ice" it means "iced water" which IS redundant.

actually, i was going for the opposite effect. i don't have a proper etymology, so this is all based on assumption. ice as a general term for a tasty frozen concoction came first, in 1716. ice cream is quoted beginning in 1744, so i'm assuming they called it iced cream to distinguish it from the other various frozen treats. when water-ice came along in 1818, i suspect it was a similar situation -- in order to distinguish it from the other "ices," they again went with the main ingredient. hence water-ice. so yes, it is silly, just not redundant.

Plus, the Cambridge Dictionary defines "water-ice" as "UK old-fashioned for sorbet." It just depends which dictionary you use...

well, it probably is an old-fashioned term for sorbet... in the UK.

however, since 1. water-ice is not the same as sorbet (the pennsylvanian word for sorbet being "sorbet") and 2. the mid-atlantic tri-state area is not in the united kingdom (much as i regret it), i suspect this definition is limited to the queen's english, in which case it doesn't really apply, hmmm? however, the merriam-webster dictionary (which last time i checked covered this side of the atlantic) defines water ice as "a frozen dessert of water, sugar, and flavoring " (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=water+ice) which is in fact the definition i'm familiar with.

in conclusion:
1. water-ice (until a less silly sounding term is approved by the OED) is clearly one of the best words to describe that particular group of tasty frozen treats (especially ones that cannot otherwise be classified as italian, shaved, etc.)
2. people in england would probably have made less fun of me than those virulent virginians and mean midwesterners (yay alliteration)
3. cambridge? psssh.

that being said, NOW i can call a truce. unless there are any further objections from the peanut gallery...?

[monadhrionnag.livejournal.com]

must say that I am actually a lot fonder of cambridge than i am of oxford. afterall, cambridge has stephen hawking.

[shadydave.livejournal.com]

and stephen hawking likes red dwarf! dilemma. really, i just love the OED in my english major coolness.

[liberalnun.livejournal.com]

I love the way you guys think. :D

[failing-light.livejournal.com]

Oxford is the ancestral home of JRR Tolkien AND CS Lewis. The OED is pure gravy, not to mention the best dictionary ever written.

Plus, Tolkien wrote W section. Not that I've read a book about the OED or anything.

[shadydave.livejournal.com]

water-ice starts with w! HOW COOL IS THAT.

[failing-light.livejournal.com]

OMG! THE IMPLICATIONS NEVER OCCURED TO ME!

SO. COOL.

This just goes to show that Tolkien was a genius.